This is one of reasons to make the vaccine universal. The virus is a lot more common and communicable than most people think and a lot more deadly. The objection to it sounds reasonable but the vaccine is quite safe it would seem and the disease is not safe at all!
Years ago, I got into an argument with a woman who was against most vaccines, but particularly the HepB vaccine. She insisted that it was unnecessary because it was an STI. When I pointed out that it's pretty easy to transmit and that a significant amount of transmission in China in between members of the same household, she insisted that didn't matter because we were in America not China.
Which is true but irrelevant. It's entirely possible that here in America, someone in the household is infected. We didn't start screening blood until the late '60's early '70's so one of the grandparents might be infected an have no idea. Given that little kids really don't understand hygiene, if one of the kids they play with or got to preschool with has it, the kid could contract it. And a toddler on interferons sounds like the worst circle of hell.
Viruses are just viruses. They don't have brains so they can't care if you're being virtuous. They evolve to be transmitted. Getting sick from a vaccine preventable infection because your parents thought that skipping the vaccine would keep you on the path of virtue is a real tragedy. And the kid would have every right to be angry at the parents for allowing that to happen.
The UK only recently started vaccinating for it routinely *at all* and offered very limited catch up option so I'm having to get my 10 year old daughter vaccinated privately. I am fine with universal infant vaccination but when you consider most teens and adults in the UK aren't vaccinated whatsoever I'm more concerned about that.
I'm not sure this critique is directed correctly. Inez (to take one example of someone you're criticizing) is not a "Nietzschean," and she's not claiming universal Hep B vaccinations are because of "wokeness." In the tweet you screenshot, she's talking about "spreadsheet brain," and in the thread goes on to describe the same dynamic (that it's easier to administer a universal recommendation, even if it's not medically necessary) that you discuss here. It may not make a difference to your disagreement, but I think it's helpful to accurately represent your interlocutors!
her reply to me also points in exactly that direction. The only reason why I might think that universal vaccination is fine is because I must be some "offendable" snowflake: https://x.com/InezFeltscher/status/1962521442769068054
Oh and Yarvin quote tweeted her (deleted since) and explicitly said the only reason universal perinatal vaccination happens is because we refuse to do some form of racial screening of mothers.
anyway, I've thought about whether I'm misrepresenting her or not (I don't want to do that).
The tweet is there for everyone to see, screenshotted, ppl can judge for themselves if the judgmental part as referring to wokeness.
As for Nietszchean or not: I will think abt whether to frame this differently. But Yarvin defo is and as i said, took part in this debate along the side of "they're vaccinating kids cuz they don't wanna do racial screening".
You say, “I found out from some of the luminaries of our age that widespread newborn vaccination against Hepatitis B happens because of ‘wokeness,’” and you quote your critics as being against “woke conspiracies.” But that’s not language any of these critics use.
Added this to the beginning of my piece. That’s what I think they meant (and Yarvin very specifically said it’s to do with race). Again, I genuinely think this is what they meant (& others do too, as evidenced by the likes to my comments, with my readership not being exactly left leaning). But I added this so people can judge for themselves and there’s also a screenshot of the tweet. So if ppl think that’s not what was meant, then they shall judge me negatively for misinterpreting what was said. It’s not like I’m hiding anything.
“Edit: It was brought to my attention that what Inez meant was not to say this is happening due to “wokeness”. Well, I think that’s what she meant, but readers can judge for themselves. I think the evidence is the caps locked JUDGEMENTAL in “fear of being seen as JUDGEMENTAL” and the idea that people (whores) should suffer consequences for their life choices, which libs do not want, Inez quote tweeting me and saying “sorry if that offends you”, as if the only reason I might think universal Hepatitis B vaccination is ok is because I am a snowflake and Yarvin saying in a now deleted tweet that the only reason this exists is because we do not want to do some form of racial screening.”
I’ve seen several young people pass away from vertical transmission Hep B. It is always so sad and not a fate I would wish on anyone.
The other benefit of universal vaccination at birth is that you go ahead and start the 3 dose vaccination series in everyone, so then they just need 2 more doses and they have durable protection from Hep B.
I think around COVID a lot of decisions were made that favored the Democrats' base more than society (keeping schools closed for example), and public health also decided to put itself on the Democrat side (remember 'protests are OK because medical racism is killing as many people as the pandemic'--OK, but how come we never heard this with any other kind of gathering?) over the past few years, so public health got 'left-coded' in the USA and now Republicans aren't vaccinating their kids.
Plus in the last few years you had a lot of the anti-tech 'crunchy mom/bro' people move from the left to the right. The right always had a rural predominance, and country people tend to use home remedies more so I guess it was more of a natural fit than those of us who grew up with hippies being left-wing are used to.
Is the term useful in some way beyond the obvious "I know you are but what am I?" roast?
I'm asking sincerely: there's certainly an identitarian strain on the right, but that doesn't line up very well with the people that get called "woke right". The red pill crew obviously live up to "woke" in some way, but I don't get the sense that people who use "woke right" are referring to the sense of awakening that makes the term suitable. So how does this illuminate?
What, if anything, are the negative effects of giving a large % of vaccinations within a short time interval versus spacing those same vaxes out over a longer interval?
I think ppl obsess over this issue in a way that's completely unwarranted given the evidence. I don't think there are any, but it's almost impossible to do an RCT of this
Since vaccines mimic infection and selectively activate the immune system, doesn't it seem intuitively likely that some large # of vaccines at the same time would result in stress on the body?
Probably can't do RCTs, but maybe statistical methods could be used to give some indication whether there is an actual problem or not.
Enjoyed the read here, some links to your additional writings are missing. I am interested in diving in and learning more. Thank you for your thought provoking take on this topic
This is one of reasons to make the vaccine universal. The virus is a lot more common and communicable than most people think and a lot more deadly. The objection to it sounds reasonable but the vaccine is quite safe it would seem and the disease is not safe at all!
Years ago, I got into an argument with a woman who was against most vaccines, but particularly the HepB vaccine. She insisted that it was unnecessary because it was an STI. When I pointed out that it's pretty easy to transmit and that a significant amount of transmission in China in between members of the same household, she insisted that didn't matter because we were in America not China.
Which is true but irrelevant. It's entirely possible that here in America, someone in the household is infected. We didn't start screening blood until the late '60's early '70's so one of the grandparents might be infected an have no idea. Given that little kids really don't understand hygiene, if one of the kids they play with or got to preschool with has it, the kid could contract it. And a toddler on interferons sounds like the worst circle of hell.
Viruses are just viruses. They don't have brains so they can't care if you're being virtuous. They evolve to be transmitted. Getting sick from a vaccine preventable infection because your parents thought that skipping the vaccine would keep you on the path of virtue is a real tragedy. And the kid would have every right to be angry at the parents for allowing that to happen.
Excellent post.
The UK only recently started vaccinating for it routinely *at all* and offered very limited catch up option so I'm having to get my 10 year old daughter vaccinated privately. I am fine with universal infant vaccination but when you consider most teens and adults in the UK aren't vaccinated whatsoever I'm more concerned about that.
what is your concern?
That almost no one is vaccinated! Seems like community transmission is happening unabated.
I'm not sure this critique is directed correctly. Inez (to take one example of someone you're criticizing) is not a "Nietzschean," and she's not claiming universal Hep B vaccinations are because of "wokeness." In the tweet you screenshot, she's talking about "spreadsheet brain," and in the thread goes on to describe the same dynamic (that it's easier to administer a universal recommendation, even if it's not medically necessary) that you discuss here. It may not make a difference to your disagreement, but I think it's helpful to accurately represent your interlocutors!
"heaven forbid we don't come across as judgemental" is actually referring to wokeness.
her reply to me also points in exactly that direction. The only reason why I might think that universal vaccination is fine is because I must be some "offendable" snowflake: https://x.com/InezFeltscher/status/1962521442769068054
Oh and Yarvin quote tweeted her (deleted since) and explicitly said the only reason universal perinatal vaccination happens is because we refuse to do some form of racial screening of mothers.
anyway, I've thought about whether I'm misrepresenting her or not (I don't want to do that).
The tweet is there for everyone to see, screenshotted, ppl can judge for themselves if the judgmental part as referring to wokeness.
As for Nietszchean or not: I will think abt whether to frame this differently. But Yarvin defo is and as i said, took part in this debate along the side of "they're vaccinating kids cuz they don't wanna do racial screening".
You say, “I found out from some of the luminaries of our age that widespread newborn vaccination against Hepatitis B happens because of ‘wokeness,’” and you quote your critics as being against “woke conspiracies.” But that’s not language any of these critics use.
Added this to the beginning of my piece. That’s what I think they meant (and Yarvin very specifically said it’s to do with race). Again, I genuinely think this is what they meant (& others do too, as evidenced by the likes to my comments, with my readership not being exactly left leaning). But I added this so people can judge for themselves and there’s also a screenshot of the tweet. So if ppl think that’s not what was meant, then they shall judge me negatively for misinterpreting what was said. It’s not like I’m hiding anything.
“Edit: It was brought to my attention that what Inez meant was not to say this is happening due to “wokeness”. Well, I think that’s what she meant, but readers can judge for themselves. I think the evidence is the caps locked JUDGEMENTAL in “fear of being seen as JUDGEMENTAL” and the idea that people (whores) should suffer consequences for their life choices, which libs do not want, Inez quote tweeting me and saying “sorry if that offends you”, as if the only reason I might think universal Hepatitis B vaccination is ok is because I am a snowflake and Yarvin saying in a now deleted tweet that the only reason this exists is because we do not want to do some form of racial screening.”
I’ve seen several young people pass away from vertical transmission Hep B. It is always so sad and not a fate I would wish on anyone.
The other benefit of universal vaccination at birth is that you go ahead and start the 3 dose vaccination series in everyone, so then they just need 2 more doses and they have durable protection from Hep B.
how come these young ppl weren’t vaxxed? which country are you from?
I think around COVID a lot of decisions were made that favored the Democrats' base more than society (keeping schools closed for example), and public health also decided to put itself on the Democrat side (remember 'protests are OK because medical racism is killing as many people as the pandemic'--OK, but how come we never heard this with any other kind of gathering?) over the past few years, so public health got 'left-coded' in the USA and now Republicans aren't vaccinating their kids.
Plus in the last few years you had a lot of the anti-tech 'crunchy mom/bro' people move from the left to the right. The right always had a rural predominance, and country people tend to use home remedies more so I guess it was more of a natural fit than those of us who grew up with hippies being left-wing are used to.
It's the woke right. I know the term is controversial but there's such amount of daily evidence anymore than I would not discard it.
Is the term useful in some way beyond the obvious "I know you are but what am I?" roast?
I'm asking sincerely: there's certainly an identitarian strain on the right, but that doesn't line up very well with the people that get called "woke right". The red pill crew obviously live up to "woke" in some way, but I don't get the sense that people who use "woke right" are referring to the sense of awakening that makes the term suitable. So how does this illuminate?
What, if anything, are the negative effects of giving a large % of vaccinations within a short time interval versus spacing those same vaxes out over a longer interval?
I think ppl obsess over this issue in a way that's completely unwarranted given the evidence. I don't think there are any, but it's almost impossible to do an RCT of this
Since vaccines mimic infection and selectively activate the immune system, doesn't it seem intuitively likely that some large # of vaccines at the same time would result in stress on the body?
Probably can't do RCTs, but maybe statistical methods could be used to give some indication whether there is an actual problem or not.
i don't think newborns get many vaccines at birth. need to check. but they also get exposed to many bacteria so idk
According to Grok, typical US vax schedule for newborns is this:
https://x.com/i/grok/share/Zs7cVeSL7JoqgSmUnozkpld5C
Enjoyed the read here, some links to your additional writings are missing. I am interested in diving in and learning more. Thank you for your thought provoking take on this topic
That human papillomavirus) vaccine. is not universal is definitely becasue of anti-wok sentiment.